Post by Simon Callander on Oct 11, 2013 2:11:15 GMT
Let's see if I can settle this. First, I am the originator of the term "catapult" to describe the lifting motion. Jon, who I have talked to many times, now uses the term as well to describe the lifting motion, which is fine with me. But please put my name first in any discussions of it(although my personality is not as big as Jon's,lol)
Let's see if I can clear this up.
__________________________________________________
cat·a·pult
ˈkatəˌpəlt,-ˌpo͝olt/Submit
noun
1. a device in which accumulated tension is suddenly released to hurl an object some distance, in particular.
a mechanical device for launching a glider or other aircraft, esp. from the deck of a ship.
BRIT.
a slingshot.
synonyms: propel, launch, hurl, fling, send flying, fire, blast, shoot More
verb
verb: catapult;3rd person present: catapults;past tense: catapulted;past participle: catapulted;gerund or present participle: catapulting
1. hurl or launch (something) in a specified direction with or as if with a catapult.
"the plane was refueled and catapulted back into the air again"
synonyms: propel, launch, hurl, fling, send flying, fire, blast, shoot
"the boulder was catapulted into the sea"
__________________________________________________ ________
So, this general definition of some thing (a lifter), using stored energy to launch some thing (a bar) is the original thought I had when debating this online several years ago. I think it is more accurate than describing the lifting motion in the pull as "jump and shrug up". I feel I can teach and describe the true actions of the body during the propelling stage of lifting better by starting off with this general definition. I KNOW we can get better results.
It, as I say in all my clinics and ad infinitum online, is NOT a particular technique. It IS, since the rules allowed the lifter to have the bar come in contact with his body, the best description of the movements that lead to propelling the bar upward over the base of support. So, whether some variation of the "S" or the "Chinese" pulls are being used, the general actions of the lifter can be described best by thinking of him as catapulting the bar and then going on to receive it.
The major difference between using "catapult" rather than "jump and shrug" to describe the lifting motion is that "jump and shrug" invites the lifter to use a well known motion in his muscle memory to elevate the bar. Unfortunately, this motion also brings the lifter too far forward over his base too soon and propels the bar in a trajectory that is too far forward of the base for too long. To make matters worse, the jump has been linked to the "shrug up" and "go to the toes" as a means of making the bar go higher in the second pull, giving us the "scarecrow" position, which is simply wrong. This combination of movements completing a classic triple extension plus a shrug has also been linked to getting the bar higher, which it can, but which is not the goal of weightlifting. If they ever invent a sport in which a bar must be put up on a high shelf, maybe this description of the motion may have some relevance. Until then, it is absurdly wrong.
The catapult description, on the other hand, means to deliver an explosive acceleration to the bar, by using hip, knee and involving different degrees of(most times) ankle extension, to send the bar on an upward trajectory that stays over the base of support. The lifter, in short, is trying to propel the bar upward WITHOUT following it off the ground as a means of projecting it higher, as jumping might have him attempt to do. This, in turn, allows the lifter to complete the task at hand by aiding his transition to reach the receiving position, which is really the primary task of the movement as a whole.
The triple extension, as we are used to seeing it and defining it in sports, is not necessarily present in the sequence and with the follow-through that affects the athlete and implement. For instance, a jump may look like hip-knee-ankle extension in quick sequence and to their fullest to produce an upward movement of an athlete. A lifter performing a lift, on the other hand may in a particular technique have knee ext.-hip ext.-ankle ext.-knee flexion-hip extension-ankle extension-knee extension-hip extension, all not to their fullest extension, to accelerate the bar upwards, then fuller extension(or not) as a followthrough with little intent to make himself go higher but to aide the transition to a descent by putting the athlete on a rearward trajectory, which will lead to him being "catapulted" again, like a slingshot stone, to the receiving position.
Now, by definition, did triple extension occur? Yes. Is it what humans normally think of as triple extension in sports? NO. And, does triple extension, as seen in sports, HAVE to happen for weights to be lifted? NO. Nail your shoes to the floor and you can prove this to yourself, if your technique is good. (Is staying completely flat-footed the best way to lift? No. That's only a strawman argument created by a west coastie who didn't understand what I was talking about, which didn't stop him from yammering about it.)
One reason I always talk about hip extension being more important is that, if the preceding movements have been done correctly, at the moment of the initiation of acceleration to the bar (start of the 2nd pull), the hip extension will produce more force quickly. Another reason I always emphasize the hip extension movement at this point is that the hip retreating or retraction or flexion that has to occur instantly after the extension leading to the transition into the pullunder is much harder to master than the movment at the knees. Hip extension/retreating is very, very difficult to teach and therefore the hips, in my opinion, have to be mentioned more and the movement here is the center of teaching the lifting technique.
So, "S", "S w/sweep", "Chinese" or "GreeK", all the solid techniques that are used by lifters involve the lifters using their bodies as catapults. Jumping up and shrugging up to make the bar go higher is a weird invention of Americans who have never understood what the lifting motion is, no matter the letters after their names and no matter how many of their peers have reviewed their work.
CoachMc (I doubt I'll ever see the end of this)(but it's fun)
Let's see if I can clear this up.
__________________________________________________
cat·a·pult
ˈkatəˌpəlt,-ˌpo͝olt/Submit
noun
1. a device in which accumulated tension is suddenly released to hurl an object some distance, in particular.
a mechanical device for launching a glider or other aircraft, esp. from the deck of a ship.
BRIT.
a slingshot.
synonyms: propel, launch, hurl, fling, send flying, fire, blast, shoot More
verb
verb: catapult;3rd person present: catapults;past tense: catapulted;past participle: catapulted;gerund or present participle: catapulting
1. hurl or launch (something) in a specified direction with or as if with a catapult.
"the plane was refueled and catapulted back into the air again"
synonyms: propel, launch, hurl, fling, send flying, fire, blast, shoot
"the boulder was catapulted into the sea"
__________________________________________________ ________
So, this general definition of some thing (a lifter), using stored energy to launch some thing (a bar) is the original thought I had when debating this online several years ago. I think it is more accurate than describing the lifting motion in the pull as "jump and shrug up". I feel I can teach and describe the true actions of the body during the propelling stage of lifting better by starting off with this general definition. I KNOW we can get better results.
It, as I say in all my clinics and ad infinitum online, is NOT a particular technique. It IS, since the rules allowed the lifter to have the bar come in contact with his body, the best description of the movements that lead to propelling the bar upward over the base of support. So, whether some variation of the "S" or the "Chinese" pulls are being used, the general actions of the lifter can be described best by thinking of him as catapulting the bar and then going on to receive it.
The major difference between using "catapult" rather than "jump and shrug" to describe the lifting motion is that "jump and shrug" invites the lifter to use a well known motion in his muscle memory to elevate the bar. Unfortunately, this motion also brings the lifter too far forward over his base too soon and propels the bar in a trajectory that is too far forward of the base for too long. To make matters worse, the jump has been linked to the "shrug up" and "go to the toes" as a means of making the bar go higher in the second pull, giving us the "scarecrow" position, which is simply wrong. This combination of movements completing a classic triple extension plus a shrug has also been linked to getting the bar higher, which it can, but which is not the goal of weightlifting. If they ever invent a sport in which a bar must be put up on a high shelf, maybe this description of the motion may have some relevance. Until then, it is absurdly wrong.
The catapult description, on the other hand, means to deliver an explosive acceleration to the bar, by using hip, knee and involving different degrees of(most times) ankle extension, to send the bar on an upward trajectory that stays over the base of support. The lifter, in short, is trying to propel the bar upward WITHOUT following it off the ground as a means of projecting it higher, as jumping might have him attempt to do. This, in turn, allows the lifter to complete the task at hand by aiding his transition to reach the receiving position, which is really the primary task of the movement as a whole.
The triple extension, as we are used to seeing it and defining it in sports, is not necessarily present in the sequence and with the follow-through that affects the athlete and implement. For instance, a jump may look like hip-knee-ankle extension in quick sequence and to their fullest to produce an upward movement of an athlete. A lifter performing a lift, on the other hand may in a particular technique have knee ext.-hip ext.-ankle ext.-knee flexion-hip extension-ankle extension-knee extension-hip extension, all not to their fullest extension, to accelerate the bar upwards, then fuller extension(or not) as a followthrough with little intent to make himself go higher but to aide the transition to a descent by putting the athlete on a rearward trajectory, which will lead to him being "catapulted" again, like a slingshot stone, to the receiving position.
Now, by definition, did triple extension occur? Yes. Is it what humans normally think of as triple extension in sports? NO. And, does triple extension, as seen in sports, HAVE to happen for weights to be lifted? NO. Nail your shoes to the floor and you can prove this to yourself, if your technique is good. (Is staying completely flat-footed the best way to lift? No. That's only a strawman argument created by a west coastie who didn't understand what I was talking about, which didn't stop him from yammering about it.)
One reason I always talk about hip extension being more important is that, if the preceding movements have been done correctly, at the moment of the initiation of acceleration to the bar (start of the 2nd pull), the hip extension will produce more force quickly. Another reason I always emphasize the hip extension movement at this point is that the hip retreating or retraction or flexion that has to occur instantly after the extension leading to the transition into the pullunder is much harder to master than the movment at the knees. Hip extension/retreating is very, very difficult to teach and therefore the hips, in my opinion, have to be mentioned more and the movement here is the center of teaching the lifting technique.
So, "S", "S w/sweep", "Chinese" or "GreeK", all the solid techniques that are used by lifters involve the lifters using their bodies as catapults. Jumping up and shrugging up to make the bar go higher is a weird invention of Americans who have never understood what the lifting motion is, no matter the letters after their names and no matter how many of their peers have reviewed their work.
CoachMc (I doubt I'll ever see the end of this)(but it's fun)